Dr Herbert McGonigle, Chairman of the Wesley Fellowship, answers questions and queries concerning Wesleyan theology and doctrine sent in by enquirers.

Note: These questions and answers are from 1988 to the present and are printed as they first appeared in the various Wesley Fellowship Newsletters.

Question: What did John Wesley teach about the Christ’s Atonement for sin?

Answer: This is a very large and a very important question and there is space only for a bare outline by way of answer. John Wesley taught that the contagion and condemnation of Adam’s sin is transmitted to the whole race; all men and constituted sinners because of the head-ship of Adam but guilt is incurred by each person only on account of their own personal sin. The atonement of Christ is sufficient for the sins of the whole world; it is appropriated by repentance and faith, which brings forgiveness, regeneration, adoption, sanctification and eternal life. John Wesley did not write a specific treatment of the Atonement, yet the death and resurrection of Christ is central to his whole theological system. To answer this question fully all his writings need to be carefully studied but the following are particularly important. An Earnest Appeal to men of Reason and Religion (1743); The Doctrine of Original Sin According to Scripture, Reason and Experience (1757); and the sermons, The Original Nature, Properties and Use of the Law (1750); On Original Sin (1759); The Scripture Way of Salvation (1756).

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Question: Is it true that John Wesley said that all those selling alcohol would go to hell?

Answer: He certainly said something very close to that in his 1760 sermon, The Use of Money. Based on Luke 16:9, the sermon had three main points; Gain all you can; Save all you Can; Give all you can. Under the first point, Wesley warned against making gain when it was hurtful to others. It was here that he attacked the distillers, those who manufactured what he called 'liquid fire.' Such spirits do have a place in medicine but no other use. All who sell them in the common way, Wesley thundered, are 'poisoners-general.' And as such they will not escape the divine judgement: 'They murder his Majesty’s subjects by wholesale, neither does their eye pity or spare. They drive them to hell like sheep. And what is their gain? Is it not the blood of these men? Who then would envy their large estates and sumptuous palaces? A curse is in the midst of them; the curse of God cleaves to the stones, the timber, the furniture of them.... a fire that burns to the nethermost hell" (Works, 6:124-136).

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Question: Did John Wesley ever speak of entire sanctification as the eradication of all sin?

Answer: The closest that John Wesley came to the use of this kind of language was in his 1767 sermon, The Repentance of Believers. Replying to the Moravian teaching that the new birth delivers the Christian completely from all sin, Wesley stressed that although the Christian is justified at the new birth, sin still remains in the heart. This inbred or Adamic sin manifests itself in the believer as pride, self-will, love of the world, etc. ‘Though we watch and pray, we cannot wholly cleanse our hearts.... till it shall please our Lord to speak the second time, “Be clean.” Then only the evil root, the carnal mind, is destroyed, and inbred sin subsists no more’ (Works, 5:165). In the later years of his preaching and writing on entire sanctification, Wesley never wavered in his conviction that salvation is salvation from sin. The language he used, however, changed in tone, from an emphasis on sinlessness to an emphasis on the fullness of love. Now he began to describe entire sanctification as ‘love excluding sin’ and ‘love expelling sin.’ To be cleansed from all inner sin in this life by the heart being filled with the love of God and man was, for John Wesley, the height and depth of Christian holiness.

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Question: Recently I heard a speaker claim that John Wesley said there is no spirituality but what is social. Did he say that, and, if so, what did he mean?

Answer: There are few writers in Church History who have suffered more from mis-quotation than John Wesley but on this occasion we can set the record straight! I’m sure that the quotation intended was Wesley’s dictum: ‘The gospel of Christ knows of no religion but social; no holiness but social holiness’ (Works, 14:321). These words were published as early as 1739 in the ‘Preface’ to Hymns and Sacred Poems, published in the names of both John and Charles Wesley. Although John Wesley preached and practised the social implications of the gospel fervently throughout his ministry, in this ‘Preface’ he was not referring to caring for the poor and other such social concerns. Instead he was attacking the mystic emphasis on the solitary life and advocating instead the necessity of Christians being together for worship, fellowship and service. ‘Holy solitaries,’ he added, ‘is a phrase no more consistent with the gospel than holy adulterers…. Faith working by love is the length and breadth and depth and height of Christian perfection.’

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Question: Was Charles Wesley an open-air preacher like his brother John and is there any record of his ministry?

Answer: The answer to both parts of this question is Yes. Charles was an itinerant preacher from 1739 until about 1756. Founder of the ‘Holy Club’ in Oxford in 1728 and experiencing a ‘heart-warming’ encounter with God in May 1738, Charles was introduced to ‘field preaching,’ as it was called, in June 1739 by George Whitefield, who had similarly influenced John Wesley three months earlier. Charles travelled widely in England and Ireland, experiencing all the hazards of the day, as he pursued his evangelistic ministry. His warm spirit, poetic skills and dedication to his calling endeared him to Methodists all over the country. It was his marriage in 1749 and eventual settling down in Bristol that brought an end to his itinerant ministry. He continued to preach in the Bristol area, and in London to which he moved with his family in 1771. His 2 volume Journal is well worth reading and there are some good biographies of Charles, including those by Thomas Jackson, F. Luke Wiseman, John E. Rattenbury and Frederick C. Gill.

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Question: Did John Wesley believe that babies are born ‘in depravity’ because Adam’s sin is transmitted to all succeeding generations?

Answer: Most definitely he did. He believed that the doctrine of the transmission of Adam’s sin to all his posterity was both the teaching of Scripture and the Thirty-Nine Articles of the Church of England. He admitted that he did not know how this transmission took place but he was sure that is what the Bible teaches. Believing that Adam was the Federal Head of the human race and that his sin in Eden was rebellion against God, Wesley wrote: ‘In that day he died to God … the love of God was extinguished in his soul…. And in Adam all died, all the children of men who were then in Adam’s loins … Everyone descended from him comes into the world spiritually dead, void of the image of God, of all that righteousness and holiness wherein Adam was created. Hence it is that, being born in sin, we must be “born again.’” (Works, 6:67-68). Wesley further believed this doctrine of original sin to be a fundamental part of the Christian faith, as he went as far as to say that all who denied this doctrine were but heathens! For Wesley’s full teaching on this subject, see his three sermons, ‘Original Sin,’ ‘On the Fall of Man,’ and ‘The New Birth.’ See also his New Testament Notes on Romans 5, and, in particular, his 1757 major work on this subject, ‘The Doctrine of Original Sin According to Scripture, Reason and Experience.’ This was his very full reply to the Socinian teaching of Dr John Taylor who had repudiated the doctrine of original sin as taught in the Thirty-Nine Articles and the Westminster Confession. Socinianism, with its denial of the doctrines of Christ’s divinity and of original sin, is the teaching subsequently known as Unitarianism.

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Question: Where can I find the words traditionally attributed to John Wesley and often seen framed in plaques; ‘Do all the good you can; By all the means you can; In all the ways you can; In all the places you can; At all the times you can; To all the people you can; As long as ever you can.’

Answer: The sentiments are certainly John Wesley’s but I have never found any passage in his many publications where he wrote these precise words. He was fond of giving the advice: ‘Do all the good you can.’ In his 1737 sermon, On Love, preached in Georgia, he directed: ‘While you have time, do all the good you can unto all men’ (Works, 7:494). Nearly fifty years later he gave the same advice in his 1786 sermon, On Visiting the Sick. ‘Whenever you have opportunity, do all the good you can’ (Works, 7:126). He frequently used the same words in his letters; in February 1784 he counselled John Baxendale: ‘Stir up the gift of God that is in you, and do all the good you can’ (Letters, 7:210). The additional words, ‘by all the means...in all the ways.... in all the places.... Etc., are most likely to have been composed as further commentary of what John Wesley meant. The sentiments are his in the sense that he always insisted that true saving faith is ‘the faith that works by love’ (Gal. 5:6). This was one of John Wesley’s favourite New Testament texts. He always insisted that saving and sanctifying faith had its fruits in the Christian life, making the Christian good and prompting him to do good.

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Question: Is it true that Samuel Wesley junior was strongly opposed to the preaching of his brothers John and Charles and thought it was madness?

Answer: There is some truth in this assertion. Samuel Wesley (1690-1739) was an ordained Church of England clergyman but he did not become a parish minister. Instead he became headmaster of Blundell’s School in Tiverton, Devon. He had helped both John and Charles financially while they were at Oxford University and his letters show that he was the elder brother, genuinely concerned for his family. Toward the end of 1738 and into 1739, he began to hear garbled reports about the preaching ministry of his two brothers. He warned John against using extempore prayer and when he heard about the falling down and prostrations that sometimes followed John’s preaching in those years, he was alarmed. He advised John to use only the Prayer Book and confine his preaching to Church of England buildings. John replied, defending his itinerant ministry and arguing that God’s blessing was on his work and that sinners were being converted. He challenged Samuel: ‘How is it that you can't praise God for saving so many souls …. unless he will begin this work within “consecrated walls?” …I love the rites and ceremonies of the Church. But I see, well-pleased, that our Lord can work without them.’ (Works [BE], 25:694, 95). Just over a week after this letter was written, Samuel died suddenly, without really knowing fully the work his brothers were engaged in. Had he lived longer, he might have rejoiced that his brothers John and Charles were exercising ministries clearly owned of God. For a very thorough evaluation of the relationship between the brothers Samuel and John Wesley, see an earlier WF Lecture; Allan Longworth’s, A Brother Bereft (Moorleys, 1989).

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Question: Is there any evidence that John Wesley’s preaching often produced hysterical reactions among his hearers and that Wesley encouraged these responses?

Answer: Well, of course, it all depends on what we mean by ‘hysterical.’ In Acts we find that the Spirit-anointed preaching of Paul caused Felix to be fearful (24:25) and Festus was so moved that he suggested the apostle was mad (26:24). We should not be surprised that a gospel that deals with sin, judgement and the world to come will provoke strong reaction when the Spirit applies it to our hearts. Certainly in the early days of John Wesley’s preaching, there were occasions when men and women reacted with strong emotional outbursts, falling down, weeping , screaming and shouting. These scenes were not typical of the responses to Wesley’s preaching but they happened now and then. What is important is how John Wesley regarded them. He did not welcome such emotional scenes and much less did he encourage them. But he well knew that the gospel produces a deep sense of guilt and that in turn produces strong emotional responses in some people. His attitude to what he witnessed in the revival at John Berridge’s church in Everton, Bedfordshire, in 1759, is a good summary of what he thought about these phenomena. They were not essential to the work of God but they sometimes occurred when people were convinced they were 'lost sinners,' and their response was 'sudden outcries and strong bodily convulsions.' He was convinced that sometimes 'nature was mixed with grace' and that sometimes Satan mimicked this work to discredit it. (Journal, 4:359, 360).

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Question: Did John Wesley ever participate in anything that might be called the charisma of tongues?

Answer: The evidence from John Wesley’s published writings says ‘No’ to this question. The Methodist Revival, in Wesley’s lifetime, witnessed great moves of the Spirit, prostrations and cries for deliverance from those deeply convicted of sin, and many shouts of praise for answered prayer – but no occurrences of glossalalia, i.e. speaking in tongues. Of the glossalalia recorded in Acts 2:4, Wesley commented: ‘This family praising God together with the tongues of all the world, was an earnest that the whole world should hereafter praise God in their various tongues.’ In 1749, with reference to Paul’s question in 1 Cor. 12:30; ‘Do all speak with tongues?’ he commented: ‘No, not even when those gifts were shed abroad in the most abundant manner’ (Works, 10:54). Even more significant is his 1762 denial that he had personally claimed any of the miraculous gifts, including what he termed ‘speaking with new tongues.’ He answered Bishop Warburton directly on this point: ‘I claim no extraordinary gift at all’ (Works, 9:125).

Question: Reading through John Wesley’s sermons I find them theologically deep and sometimes difficult to understand. Did he really preach these sermons to the masses of unlearned people in the open air?

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Answer: The simple is, No! John Wesley prepared more than one hundred sermons especially for printing and they were published, either in the series Sermons on Several Occasions (between 1746 and 1788) or in the pages of the Arminian Magazine, which he launched in 1778. These sermons were carefully written out in full and, in the style of the day, contained many quotations from classical ancient Greek and Latin authors and from the English classical poets. From his ‘Sermon Register,’ which runs from 1747 to 1761 (see Journal, 8:169-252), we see the texts that Wesley used again and again in his itinerant and evangelistic preaching. Unfortunately the ‘Sermon Register’ is lost for the earlier and later years of Wesley’s preaching (viz. 1738 – 1746; 1762 – 1790), but this fourteen year record is an indispensable guide in any study of Wesley’s preaching. Most of the texts found in the Register are not those found in the published sermons. There is, therefore, good evidence for saying that John Wesley’s itinerant preaching was much less formal, scholarly and deeply theological than the sermons he prepared for publication. The itinerant sermons were for the crowds that flocked to hear him preach under the open skies; the published sermons for those of his own ‘Methodist’ people who could read and for those in the country that genuinely wanted to know what the Methodists believed.

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Question: Recently I read a pamphlet which said that James Arminius was a secret Roman Catholic believer and an admirer of the Jesuits. Is this true?

Answer: In a word – No! This is a complete fabrication, and is the product either of ignorance of the facts or a deliberate attempt to promote lies about Arminius. I, too, have seen these allegations in print with always without any supporting references or evidence – for the simple reason that there are none. James Arminius (1559-1609) was a strong Evangelical Christian and an outstanding biblical scholar and theologian. He was hardly likely to be well disposed to the Roman Church for, in August 1575, a Catholic Spanish army massacred most of the inhabitants of his hometown, Oudewater, in Holland, including his mother, brothers and sisters. But the evidence against this lie of Arminius’ alleged Roman sympathies is irrefutable when his Works are studied. Just a few examples will be sufficient. Writing about the titles ascribed to the Pope, such as ‘the Head, the Vicar of God and Christ on earth,’ Arminius rejected them and supplied his own titles: ‘The false prophet, the destroyer and subverter of the Church, the enemy of God and the Anti-Christ, the wicked and perverse servant, who neither discharges the duties of a Bishop, nor is worthy to bear the name’ (Works, 2:264-265). These are hardly the sentiments of a Roman admirer! Arminius likewise refuted the claims of the Roman Mass, calling it ‘a foolish ignorance’ and an ‘idolatry,’ and the invocation of Mary and departed saints he likewise rejected as ‘idolatry’ (Works, 2:443ff). Much more similar proof could be cited to answer the false accusations made against Arminius’ teaching.

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Question: I think I read somewhere that John Wesley once said that his friend John Fletcher was the most holy man he had ever known. Did Wesley say that?

Answer: Yes he did. John Fletcher (1729-1785) was vicar of Madeley, Shropshire, from 1760 until his death. He was one of John Wesley’s closest associates and Wesley named him as his successor, though in fact Wesley outlived him by six years. In the 1770s John Fletcher had come to John Wesley’s theological defence and answered his critics with his celebrated Checks to Antinomianism. These Checks defended Wesley’s doctrines, in particular his doctrines of universal grace and Christian perfection. Fletcher’s biblical and theological expositions of these doctrines constituted the first systematic presentation of Wesleyan doctrine. Fletcher died on 14th August 1785 and Wesley preached his funeral sermon in London on Sunday 6th November the same year. Preaching from Psalm 37:37, ‘Mark the perfect man,’ Wesley spoke of his friend with deep conviction. ‘Many exemplary men have I known, holy in heart and life, within fourscore years. But one equal to him I have not known – one so inwardly and outwardly devoted to God. So unblameable a character in every respect I have not found either in Europe or America. Nor do I expect to find another such on this side of eternity’ (J. Wesley, Works, 7:449).

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Question: Some time ago I read somewhere about John Wesley's 'Puritan ancestors.' What does this mean? I always thought his ancestors were Anglicans.

Answer: John Wesley's ancestors were both Anglican and Puritan! The term 'Puritan' refers to a movement that arose in the English Church at the time of Elizabeth 1 (1558-1603). These 'Puritans' campaigned for a more radical Reformation in England . When Charles II became King in the Restoration of 1660, his government disliked all things Puritan and Charles blamed the Puritans for the execution of his father, Charles I, in 1649. In 1662 the government legislated the Act of Uniformity, forcing all ministers to conduct Church services only by the rites of the newly revised Prayer Book. Some 2000 ministers refused to conform and were ejected from their parishes. Among those who lost their livings were Bartholomew Wesley and his son John - great-grandfather and grandfather respectively of John and Charles Wesley. Another ejected minister was Dr Samuel Annesley, maternal grandfather to the Wesleys. John Wesley's father, Samuel Wesley, and his mother, Susanna Annesley, before they married, had both left their Nonconformist backgrounds and entered the Church of England. The home they set up, especially when they moved to Epworth in Lincolnshire , was characterised by both Anglican and Puritan devotion. The Anglican influence was seen in the importance they gave to the service of the Lord's Table; also they closely followed the services of the Book of Common Prayer for both public and private devotion. But Samuel and Susanna Wesley also brought to their home and family the marks of their Puritan upbringing; a love of learning and good books, devoting all one's time to God, the supremacy of Scripture and a strict observance of the Sabbath. Into this rich devotional amalgam of Anglican piety and Puritan devotion, John and Charles Wesley were born and grew up. Both these influences can be detected in their lives' work and ministry.

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Question: On a website I saw this quotation from John Wesley. Can you tell me where I can find it in his writings? 'I want a whole Christ for my salvation, a whole Bible for my faith, a whole Church for my fellowship and a whole world for my mission field.'

Answer: John Wesley did not write these words! This is a fairly well known quotation and it has variations depending on where you find it. In its original form it is much older than Wesley's time. It is attributed to Bishop John Chrysostom (c. 348-407) who was appointed Patriarch of Constantinople in 398.

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Question: In a book which I've just read there was a quotation from John Wesley but not in the form I've often heard. 'The world is my parish and whoever is lost is in my parish.' Do you know of it?

Answer: The first part of this quotation is from John Wesley but not the second part. In a letter written on May 28, 1739, he said, 'I look upon all the world as my parish; thus far I mean, that in whatever part of it I am, I judge it meet, right and my bounden duty to declare unto all that are willing to hear the glad tidings of salvation.' It is not certain to whom this letter, defending his itinerant ministry, was sent but there is good reason to believe it was a former member of the Oxford 'Holy Club,' the Rev. John Clayton. The other words, 'whoever is lost is in my parish' were not written by John Wesley.

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Question: Is it true that John Wesley didn’t like Quakers?

Answer: No it isn’t true. John Wesley discovered from his itinerant preaching that Quakers gave him a mixed reception - in much the same way that members of the Church of England did. There were some Quakers who listened to his preaching, believed the gospel and professed Christ for salvation. Wesley’s Journal has records of these happenings. At the same time there were other Quakers who strongly opposed Wesley’s ministry, just as many nominal Anglicans did. Wesley had made a close study of the writings of Robert Barclay (1648-1690), the Scottish Quaker theologian and friend of George Fox. He charged Barclay with making sanctification the ground of our justification - the same error that’s found in Roman Catholic teaching - and that, as a consequence, Barclay was teaching justification by works and not by faith (see Wesley’s Works, ed. Jackson, 10: 177-188). But he also found sound doctrine in Barclay and adapted and used his work, An Apology for the true Christian Divinity (first published in Latin in 1676 as Theologiae Vere Christianae Apologia , translated into English in 1677 by Barclay, and usually called Barclay’s ‘Apology’) when Wesley was refuting the doctrine of unconditional predestination. Wesley first published his edited version of Barclay’s anti-predestinarian arguments in 1741 under the title, Serious Considerations on Absolute Predestination: Extracted from a late Author. This 24-page apologia is not found in the popular Jackson (14 vol.) edition of Wesley’s Works but it will be included in a still awaited volume of the new (in progress 34-vols.) Bicentennial Edition of The Works of John Wesley.

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Question: On a website I saw this quotation from John Wesley. Can you tell me where I can find it in his writings? ‘I want a whole Christ for my salvation, a whole Bible for my faith, a whole Church for my fellowship and a whole world for my mission field.'

Answer: John Wesley did not write these words! This is a fairly well known quotation and it has variations depending on where you find it. In its original form it is much older than Wesley's time. It is attributed to Bishop John Chrysostom (c. 348-407) who was appointed Patriarch of Constantinople in 398.

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Question: In a book which I've just read there was a quotation from John Wesley but not in the form I've often heard. ‘The world is my parish and whoever is lost is in my parish.' Do you know of it?

Answer: The first part of this quotation is from John Wesley but not the second part. In a letter written on May 28, 1739, he said, ‘I look upon all the world as my parish; thus far I mean, that in whatever part of it I am, I judge it meet, right and my bounden duty to declare unto all that are willing to hear the glad tidings of salvation.' It is not certain to whom this letter, defending his itinerant ministry, was sent but there is good reason to believe it was a former member of the Oxford ‘Holy Club,' the Rev. John Clayton. The other words, ‘whoever is lost is in my parish' were not written by John Wesley.

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Question: Some time ago I heard a speaker in a service talk about John Wesley’s translation of the Bible. I’d never heard that before. Did he really translate the Bible into English?

Answer: John Wesley translated the New Testament from Greek into English but he did not translate the Old Testament.  While recovering from an illness near Bristol in 1754, Wesley began to write his Explanatory Notes upon the New Testament.  This was meant to be a commentary on all the books in the New Testament.  In the ‘Preface’ he said his intention was to write these Notes mainly for ‘plain, unlettered men, who understand only their mother-tongue, and yet reverence and love the Word of God, and have a desire to save their souls.’ As Wesley worked on the translation into English, he came to the conclusion that some of the various Greek New Testament texts available to him (particularly a carefully edited New Testament Greek text (1734), and exegetical textual notes, Gnomen Novi Testamenti (1742), published by the Lutheran scholar Johann Albrecht Bengel, 1687-1752) were more accurate than those available to the 1611 King James translators.  When Wesley’s Notes were published in 1755, the English text was still similar to what is found in the Authorised Version - but in some places it was different. These were the places where Wesley followed Greek texts he believed superior to those used by the 1611 (and earlier) translators.  So in fact he did publish the full text of the New Testament as he had translated it from the Greek.  This work, his Explanatory Notes upon the New Testament (usually abbreviated as ENNT), was very popular.  Wesley published at least five more editions of these Notes during his lifetime, including his final thoroughly revised translation of The New Testament (without the full Notes) in 1790.  Since then scores more editions of ENNT have been published.  Ten years after his New Testament Notes appeared, Wesley published his Explanatory Notes upon the Old Testament.  Like the earlier work, these Notes consisted of brief (sometimes very brief) explanations of the biblical text.  In this latter work Wesley did not translate the Hebrew text but worked with the English text of the Authorised Old Testament. 

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Question: I’ve often heard the quotation, ‘Cleanliness is next to godliness’ attributed to John Wesley. Did he say that and could you please tell me where I can find it?

Answer: John Wesley used this quotation twice in 1786 in two of his published sermons. The sermons are numbered 1 to 151 and this quotation is found in Sermons 88 and 98. The former is entitled ‘On Dress’ and is based on 1 Peter 3:3-4. Wesley argues for what he calls ‘neatness of apparel,’ adding that ‘slovenliness is no part of religion’ and that ‘cleanliness is next to godliness.’ Sermon 98 is entitled ‘On visiting the sick’ and is based on Matthew 25:36. ‘I was sick and ye visited me.’ Wesley describes what visiting the sick means and draws attention to how such visitation can be profitable to the recipients. The visitor should pray for them, talk to them about spiritual things and teach them about ‘industry and cleanliness.’ Then he adds, ‘It was said by a pious man, “Cleanliness is next to godliness.”’ In dictionaries of quotations these words are nearly always attributed to John Wesley but he quoted them as from ‘a pious man.’ The quotation is much older than the 18 th century and originated in Rabbinic (Jewish) literature. The quotation can be found in The Works of John Wesley (14 vols.) edited by Thomas Jackson; 7:16, 123; also in The Works of John Wesley, Bi-Centennial Edition, 3:249, 392.

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Question: Did John Wesley say somewhere in his writings that he was once a Roman Catholic?  I think I remember seeing it in his Journal.

Answer: In the sense of being a member of the Roman Catholic Church, John Wesley was never a part of it in any way.  He was born into a Church of England home; he was made a member of that Church in baptism, was ordained into its ministry, and, although he became the founder and leader of Methodism, never formally left the C of E.  I think, however, that I know the passage in his Journal that has prompted this question.  On 27 August 1739, sixteen months after he had begun preaching in the open air, John Wesley was in Bristol.  A rumour was begun anonymously by one or more people who didn’t like his evangelistic preaching.  They spread the ‘news’ that Wesley ‘was a Papist, if not a Jesuit,’ and that he had been born in Rome!  Wesley of course denied the false charge and then added. ‘For ten years I was (fundamentally) a Papist, and knew it not’ (Journal, 1: 219).  The ‘ten years’ were from 1728 to 1738 and Wesley spent most of them as leader of the Oxford ‘Methodists.’  By ‘Papist’ he didn’t mean that he was a member of the Roman Church; rather, that he had mistakenly preached that sanctification comes before justification.  This was taught by the Council of Trent that met between 1545 and 1563 and re-stated official Roman teaching. With the help of the Moravians Wesley began to see that this was not the teaching of Scripture and this was the beginning of the spiritual journey that led to his evangelical ‘heart-warming’ in London on 24 May 1738. For the rest of his life and ministry John Wesley preached clearly and emphatically that sinners are justified by grace alone and then as believers they are likewise sanctified by faith.  So his confession that for ten years he had been a ‘Papist’ was an admission that he had not understood the teaching of Scripture and consequently had experienced spiritual defeat, confusion and frustration until gospel light broke upon him.

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Question: Can you please help me with a John Wesley quotation that I’ve heard a number of times but each time the words were a little different. It’s about Wesley saying that a hundred preachers would soon bring revival. Did he actually say that?

Answer: He certainly did write about how he wanted one hundred totally-dedicated preachers to advance the work of God. In a 1777 letter to Mr Alexander Mather, one of his longest-serving travelling preachers, Wesley wrote. ‘Give me one hundred preachers who fear nothing but sin and desire nothing but God, and I care not a straw whether they be clergymen or laymen, such alone will shake the gates of hell and set up the kingdom of heaven upon earth’ (J. Wesley, Letters, 6:271, 272). Of particular interest here is John Wesley’s acknowledgement that in the work of preaching and ministry, laymen may be as much used of God as ordained ministers. In his lifetime John Wesley had a very small number of ordained clergy who were willing to be Methodist preachers but nearly all his itinerant preachers were laymen.

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Question: Recently I saw a hymn, said to have been written by John Wesley, which spoke about the Jews returning to Israel and becoming Christians. Do you know anything about this hymn?

Answer: The hymn in question was written by Charles Wesley and published in 1762.  John Wesley included it in his 1780 hymn-book, A Collection of Hymns for the use of the People called Methodists, and for that reason is mistakenly referred to as John Wesley’s hymn.  It was also included in the 1875 A Collection of Hymns ..., and in the 1904 Methodist Hymn Book, but excluded from The Methodist Hymn Book (1933).  Charles based the hymn on Isaiah 66:19, a passage that speaks about the re-gathering of Israel to Mount Zion and from there the gospel will go out to all the nations of the world.  The hymn begins: ‘Almighty God of Love,’ and pictures converted Jews proclaiming Christ as the Messiah.  (Note: Italics & spelling used below is from Charles’ text).

From Abraham’s favour’d seed
Thy new Apostles chuse,
In isles and continents to spread
The dead reviving news.

Adding the words of Paul in Romans 11:26, ‘And so all Israel will be saved,’ Charles wrote:

We know, it must be done,
For God hath spoke the word,
All  Israel shall their Saviour own,
To their first state restor’d:
Re-built by his command,
Jerusalem shall rise,
Her temple on Moriah stand
Again, and touch the skies.

This hymn, which can be said to represent the views of both John and Charles Wesley, is well worth studying relative to how the Wesleys read scripture in terms of Israel’s future in God’s plans.

Stimulated by Dr McGonigle’s fascinating response to the question involving this particular Charles Wesley hymn, a further article has been prepared by William T. Graham (Editor of the Wesley Fellowship Bulletin). Read the article here.

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Question: I’ve seen a picture of John Wesley standing and preaching on his father’s grave. Did this happen just once or many times?

Answer: It happened many times. John Wesley made his first preaching visit to his hometown of Epworth on Saturday June 5, 1742. On the Sunday he offered to assist the minister of St Andrew’s Parish Church in preaching or reading prayers, but the offer was refused. This was the church where his father, the Revd Samuel Wesley (1662-1735) had been Rector for almost forty years and where John himself had been his father’s curate 1727-1729. Following the afternoon service, Wesley’s assistant, John Taylor, stood at the church gate and announced that as John Wesley had not been allowed to preach in the church, he would preach in the churchyard at 6. The news spread rapidly and when Wesley arrived at six he described the congregation as probably the largest Epworth had ever seen. John Wesley stood on the stone slab that covers his father’s grave. It is about 6 feet long and 2 feet wide and stands about 20 inches high. It made an ideal pulpit and because it was the property of the Wesley family, no one could legally prevent John Wesley using it. His text that Sunday evening in June 1742 was Romans 14:17, ‘The kingdom of God is not meat and drink, but righteousness, and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.’ Wesley stayed for a week on that first visit to Epworth and preached every evening from the graveyard pulpit. He went back to Epworth in January 1743 and preached again from the stone pulpit. We don’t know how many times John Wesley preached from his father’s grave because in subsequent visits to Epworth he doesn’t mention it but he probably preached there many times. He was, however, in no doubt of how spiritually successful his preaching on that stone pulpit had been. In a letter to ‘John Smith’ in March 1747, Wesley spoke of the years when he had been his father’s curate in Epworth. ‘I am well assured I did far more good to them [the Epworth parishioners] by preaching three days on my father’s tomb than I did by preaching three years in his pulpit’ (J. Wesley, Letters, 2:96).

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Question: Down the years I’ve heard a lot about the Class Meetings in early Methodism but very little about the Band Meetings. Can you please give me some information about them?

Answer: The Band Meetings were set up by John Wesley among his followers in 1738. Wesley had seen such meetings among the Moravians and he copied and adapted the practices.  The general structure was that the Societies were made up of all the members, the Class Meetings consisting of eleven members and a leader, and the Band Meetings were composed of no more than six or seven members.  The requirements for joining these General Societies (later called Methodist Societies) were simple: ‘a desire to save your soul and flee from the wrath to come.’  That meant that people could join the Societies and be in a Class Meeting before they professed conversion, provided they were seeking salvation.  With the Band Meetings it was different.  They were for professing believers only and they were set up to strengthen faith and fellowship and encourage the members to press on to full salvation.  The Bands were to meet at least once a week and in their gatherings the six or seven people present had to be willing to be asked personal and searching questions. These questions included, ‘Do you desire to be told your faults?’  ‘What known sins have you committed since our last meeting?’, and ‘What temptations have you met with?’  Clearly these Band Meetings depended on their members keeping confidences about fellow members and being scrupulously careful not to reveal what had been disclosed and discussed.   Consequently there is far less information available about the Band Meetings than about the Class Meetings because it would have betrayed the confidences of the members if the Band discussions had been published.  It is also instructive to note that while the Class Meetings continued into the early 20th century, the Bands were disappearing even during John Wesley’s lifetime. It is most likely that the Bands gradually ceased because not many people were willing to be exposed to these kinds of searching personal questions every week. (For further information see John Wesley’s ‘A Plain Account of the People called Methodists’, in The Works of John Wesley, 8: 252-260).

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